More than this

[phoenix64]

I think I just pinned down what irritates me about some of the criticism of s3. People complain about how Martha was portrayed as someone who didn't measure up to Rose in the Doctor's affections, they complain about her storyline involving her pining for the Doctor. But you know what irritates me? That in all their complaining, this is what they reduce Martha to. As if the only things that matter about Martha are who she's fond of and who's fond of her.

I'm tired of reading stories and watching vids about how awesome Martha is in spite of the Doctor's treatment of her. How about how awesome she is because of things she did and things about her that have nothing to do with any of that?

Comments

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I am with you, but I am a long term 'watch around-er' of romance in my canon. Which is funny, since I'll merrily play with it in fic.

I just avoid it in canon. So I see the characters outside it and would really, really be happy if other people could ever manage.

[fan-eunice.livejournal.com]

I dunno…I included fairly heavy 'ship element when I vid Martha because, well, Martha/Ten is one of my 'ships :), and I find the Doctor/Companion dynamics to be one of the most interesting elements of the show regardless of era. But I certainly don't think she's awesome in spite of Ten. I think she's awesome, full stop.

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Also, a lot of awesome music is shippy.

[fan-eunice.livejournal.com]

Sadly, yes. In general I trend towards more gen vids, but damn is it hard to find songs that aren't about romantic relationships in some way. I've always got one ear out for songs that can go in the 'gen' pile.

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I was doing a playlist for a game, and kept smacking into that wall. Broken relationships? EASY. Functional, grown up or gen songs? PFFT.

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I came off as more down on shippy stuff in general than I meant to. One can be shippy about Martha and the Doctor without doing what I was trying to complain about. It's saying that it's this awful thing that has to be addressed in such a way that blows it out of proportion. There was more to Martha than that. There was even more to what could be seen as shippy between her and the Doctor than that.

But I'm having a hard time figuring out how to explain it better than pointing at vids and fic and going "This one good, this one bad."

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Oh no, I know what you meant. I think so, anyway, I just wandered off on a tangent because I was thinking about it. It's. Two awesome people in a ship are good, two people made awesome because or inspite of a ship is bad?

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

YES!!! Thank you! ::dances you::

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

*spins with you*

I get it and I'm there. that sort of attitude kind of makes my skin crawl, and not just in fiction.

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I've dealt with some actually kind of astounding things in my love life but I tend to be somewhat private about it because, hello, I am not a Disney princess or a character in a Brontë book. Judge me by the dragons I've slain all on my own.

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

I don't mean to get down on the shippy stuff in general. And now, trying to explain myself, I'm having trouble. Why can't you people just read my mind?!

"Don't Touch That Dial", which by the way is awesome, doesn't reduce Martha. It certainly doesn't emphasize those moments that could be seen as the Doctor being unkind or dismissive of Martha. It's those "responses" that I think reduce her. But now that I'm trying to better explain what I mean, I can't figure out how to put it. It's just, in having to have a response they make it more important than it is.

[fan-eunice.livejournal.com]

Damn LJ for not installing the "read my mind" button yet. I can think of quite a few posts of mine I'd like to install it on :)

It's those "responses" that I think reduce her.

Okay, I think I sort of get it. That by overemphasizing Ten's reactions, it's like saying his approval is required for her awesome to actually count? 'Martha is made of awesome and I wish Ten could see and fully embrace that' vs. 'As long as Ten doesn't see Martha's awesome it can't be fully realized'.

Yes, no?

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

Sort of that, and sort of when it's portrayed that Martha's awesomeness is because she didn't let Ten's "rejection" of her get her down. It's like her awesomeness is contingent on how she's handled her love life.

fandom_me put it pretty well when she said two awesome people in a ship are good, two people made awesome because or in spite of a ship is bad.