The only truth that sticks

[phoenix64]

Hey there wise and all-knowing Friends List, I'm hoping to tap your collective knowledge a bit. I'm looking for examples of betrayal in the TV shows we know and at least some of us love. I'm interested in all kinds, from the ones we're in on it from the beginning (Faith joining forces with the Mayor), the ones that blindsided us (the character who'd been helping Gormogon in Bones), and the ones where the betrayals are perpetrated by the good guys (Wiseguy.) Gimme what you got.

A note about spoilers: I'm pretty lackadaisical about spoilers, but I try to be courteous in general towards others. That being said, please remember the recent hiatus in my TV watching. I would prefer it if, for instance, all BSG after the mid-season break was avoided (I don't know that there's any particular reason I might need to make that request, I'm just hedging my bets).

Oh, if anyone wants to talk about examples from Spooks/MI-5 that would be great. The only complete series I've seen is the most recent one, the 7th, but I'd definitely be curious about how that issue has come up in the show.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_medley_/]

What about if it looks like betrayal, but isn't? Like, say, "What about Bob"?

Also, um, the ones I can think of off the top of my head are spoilery spoilery, but are from old shows (B5, due South). But are really spoilery.

[rustydog.livejournal.com]

What about if it looks like betrayal, but isn't?

::nods:: The Fourth Doctor serial The Invasion of Time has that. (I hope that's vague enough.)

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

I don't know that, but would you mind explaining it to me?

[rustydog.livejournal.com]

Sure! Obviously if someone hasn't seen that serial and doesn't want to know plot details, this is the time to bail out of this comment. :)

At the beginning of the story, you see the Doctor talking to some shadowy creatures on another ship, and he's acting like he's going to do something for them. Then he and his companion Leela arrive on Gallifrey and he proceeds to claim the Presidency (which actually was his, he just hadn't wanted it before) and act like a complete tyrant, verbally abusing the other Time Lords, making them do things with no explanation, and allowing these alien creatures access to the Citadel. Oh, and he has Leela kicked out of the city. It becomes clear that he's collaborating with the aliens to give them control. What isn't revealed until later is that everything he has done is to get the aliens into a position where they can be defeated, but he couldn't tell anyone about his plans because the aliens are telepathic. Even exiling Leela was to get her into a position where she could help him the most.

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

I am fine with those spoilers, especially since I've seen the entire runs of both shows.

Anyone else, don't look below this comment!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_medley_/]

All right, in B5, just off the top of my head, Garibaldi gets shot in the back, and later gets manipulated into betraying Sheridan. Lennier has that moment of...whatever, when Sheridan's life is in danger and he doesn't save him. Neroon appears to be betraying Delenn at one point. (Have I mentioned lately that I adore Neroon? Anyway.)

In due South, there's "Ladies' Man," which is all about betrayal. There's that moment in "Asylum" when Fraser handcuffs Ray, but I don't think that one counts. *g*

More as I remember them. (I love the "one character appears to betray another in order to save him or her" trope a LOT, you'd think I could remember more of them.)

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

In dS there's also Gerard, and Fraser at the end of "Victoria's Secret." I need to go over "Ladies Man" again.

I need to refamiliarize myself with B5. I know there were some things with PsiCorps, but I'm fuzzy on the details.

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

Oh, and yes, perceptions of betrayal like "What About Bob?" definitely.

Dresden Files also has the issue of Harry's uncle.

[stackcats.livejournal.com]

There's Jayne trying to hand River and Simon over to the Alliance in firefly (can't remember the episode title).

BSG you've got Baltar. And I suppose Sharon counts, but in the opposite direction.

Do you watch Merlin? And if not do you want spoilers for a betrayal in that?

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

I don't watch Merlin and I'm fine with spoilers.

I find Baltar in BSG interesting because this time around he's really been more of a hapless ninny in that respect, whereas in the original series he was quite deliberate.

I find some of the ideas related to betrayal and these Cylons to be fascinating. Sharon is of course the best example - she didn't replace the person they knew, she was the person they knew, and how do you really judge a person who didn't know they were the enemy?

[stackcats.livejournal.com]

I've only seen one episode of the original series, and to be honest I thought it was pretty bad. (Wow, if I said that in Doctor Who fandom I'd be lynched!) But I've read some stuff about the characters, and the differences almost make me want to watch more.

I kind of lost track with the Sharons and had to go back and re-watch. The one on Caprica with Helo knew she was a cylon all along, didn't she? But Boomer was a sleeper agent and had no idea.

Oh, and in Merlin, Morgana arranges to have Uther (her guardian) murdered, but saves him at the last minute. He never (yet) finds out that she organised the attack on him.

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

Was Morgana's save unintentional or did she change her mind at the last minute?

[stackcats.livejournal.com]

She changed her mind at the last minute, so not a complete betrayal.

[travels-in-time.livejournal.com]

Ha! I saw this post earlier and was all "Hey, that's been on my mind too!" Which was why I put up that "sticky note" post of my own, about things that I wanted to talk about, so I wouldn't forget them. :D

Great minds...

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

It's that Collective Unconscious Sticky Note idea that Jung never got around to writing about because sticky notes hadn't been invented yet!

*is feeling exceptionally silly right now*